theposse.org
Student visited by Homeland Security...
Posted by Temporal at 2005/12/17 19:09:24 CST
politics, censorship, patriot act

... for requesting a copy of Mao Zedong's Little Red Book. For research.

This is very, very bad.

Normally I'm not one to take up arms over government privacy violations, but this is just nuts. The book isn't even related to terrorism! And even if it were... argh. It's a book. Reading a book does not mean you believe in its contents. But, no, it has nothing to do with terrorism. It's about communism, which, although it is something our government traditionally doesn't like, poses no threat to our national security. Apparently, though, the fact that the government doesn't like it is good enough reason to start investigating you if you read it. Which, of course, will lead to people not reading such things because they don't want to be visited by homeland security. It's basically a subtle form of censorship.

Indeed, this censorship only makes us more like China, which presumably is what Homeland Security was trying to stop by censoring this book.

Does anyone know if this sort of thing was covered by some part of the PATRIOT act which is expiring? Miraculously, the Senate rejected the renewal of several parts of the act. They had to use filibuster to do it, because most of the god damned Republicans actually support this shit, but whatever works...

2005/12/18 02:40:57 CST by derch

Wait... I'm at Dartmouth too! OH NOES! I never really thought of my avoidance for libraries as a good thing, but maybe it turned out to be for the best. I doubt the government is interested in my last library checkout item: "Complete Collection of Hungarian Rhapsodies by Franz Liszt."

2005/12/18 17:07:33 CST by mattsteg
[mattsteg's avatar]

Pff, only terrorists are interested in Hungarian music,

2005/12/18 17:50:06 CST by Eldragon

So lets see here, need to show travel papers when traveling with our own borders, the government has the ability to watch your every move, arrest you without cause, search your home and property and not issue a search warrent until after the search has been performed... the land of the free is gone. The goverment watches everything you do and say. Having said that...

I for one, welcome our new orwellian overloads. <<-- Sarcasm

2005/12/18 18:57:34 CST by Kate
Edited by Temporal at 2007/08/09 17:52:52 CDT

I'm currently working in Congress and so know a little about this topic because of my issue areas. Here's my two cents...

Yes, this type of activity is covered under part of the Patriot Act, which is expiring. In the reauthorization bill for this year, the power allowing this type of activity is restored and gives government officials the ability to track and investigate anybody's books, gun sales (which places many gun owners in opposition to the act), phone records, etc. if that person is "reasonably expected" to be involved in terrorist activity. While the article did not mention whether this particular student was suspected of terrorist activity, it seems pretty unlikely, and thus I would say that this is likely an abuse of an act that is already abusive to civil liberties. Unfortunately, the Patriot Act is pretty quiet on the topic of what recourse citizens abused under the auspices of the act have (shocking right?), so this guy is pretty much out of luck when it comes to justice.

But yes, basically the Patriot Act says the government can investigate nearly any part of a person's life if that person is suspected of terrorist activity and the investigator can establish that the information would be "relevant" to the investigation. The search must also be cleared through the agency director, but that's basically just bureaucratic comfort language.

At least the Senate shot the thing down (thank you Sen. Russ Feingold). However, with the new executive privileges Bush started trying to assert this week, it probably won't matter. The whole "government can spy on you now" story from this week is basically what Bush is doing because the Patriot Act reauthorization is killed; his new policy, administered under "executive privilege" of the Constitution means that he just does what the Patriot Act allowed him to do without being authorized to do it under the Patriot Act.

So he needed a law to say he could do it before. That law expired, so he's just saying he can do it because, turns out, it was an executive power all along! How convenient! If I may, WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK!? If he needed a law before, it's clearly outside the bounds of his Constitutional powers to do it in absence of the law. This is a gross abuse of executive power.

I would tell you to write to your congressman, but as one of the people who answers those letters, I can guarantee you it is futile. Please go campaign for candidates who know what the hell civil liberties are and have the courage and conviction to protect them. Sure, campaigners are paid in pizza and faint praise, but you get to keep the t-shirts. Good times.

Hmm... I hope I don't go on a watch list for writing this. Oh well, I once said I wanted to pants John Ashcroft, so I've probably been on the list for awhile now anyway.

2005/12/21 23:25:23 CST by burn
[burn's avatar]

terrorist, bomb, bush, white house, kittens, al quada, jihad, pony, communism, Osama's homoabortion pot-n'-commie jizzporium.

well if your not on a watch list you are now. viva la revolution!

btw who are you working for?

2005/12/22 19:43:16 CST by Kate

Kennedy.

2005/12/22 21:47:50 CST by Temporal
[Temporal's avatar]

Can you explain to me how it is that votes are allowed to take place -- and pass -- when only one member of the Senate is present?

Apparently the Patriot Act was extended by 6 months (with the whole Senate voting), but then the extension was reduced to 5 weeks in a "unanimous" vote of 1-0. Not that I'm disagreeing with the reduction, but if I were a senator I think I'd be rather scared to go on vacation under such circumstances.

2005/12/23 11:14:29 CST by Kate

That's a good question because the Constitution states that "a majority of each House shall constitute a quorum to do business." So, one could pretty easily assert that the idea is for the Senate to do business when 51 of its 100 members are present.

However, the Senate operates under its own set of rules (these are the rules that allow for a filibuster, an act many mistakenly consider to be a constitutional right). Under these rules, the Senate assumes that a majority is present until a Senator "suggests the absence of a quorum (ie 51 members)." So the Senate acts on the presumption that there's always a majority present when it's in session. Basically this is so the Senate can do stuff without needing at least 51 Senators on the floor all the time; it lets them wander in/out, go to meetings, etc. It also leads to things like, I don't know, having only Sen. Warner from Virginia vote on the 5-week extension of the Patriot Act. This is even funnier when you consider that he was acting as the presiding officer. So he was the presiding officer, the only voting Senator and the only one who could call for a quorum if he wanted to do it. I can hardly wait for the misleading "John Warner was the ONLY SENATOR to vote for reauthorization of the Patriot Act!" ad comes out.

So first the Patriot Act was going to be permanent, then it was going to sunset, then it was going to be authorized under executive order, then it was going to be extended for 6 months, and now it's going to be extended for 5 weeks. Lesson: if you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em (or exhaust them).

2005/12/23 17:24:24 CST by Temporal
[Temporal's avatar]

The filibuster isn't a right, but it should be. IMO, congress should require a 2/3 majority to do anything. If 1/3 is against something it's better to err on the side of maintaining the status quo. Tyrrany of the majority and all that.

2005/12/24 12:25:21 CST by Temporal
Edited at 2005/12/24 12:25:44 CST
[Temporal's avatar]
2005/12/24 14:00:33 CST by burn
[burn's avatar]

What a fucking idiot! But I guess how was he to know the NY Times was going to drop a bomb shell of a story the next day. Kid sounds like he has some mental deficiencies.

To bad retractions are always buried on page 9.

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